An Open Discussion About Male Submission
An Open Discussion About Male Submission
Submissive men are not taught or indoctrinated to be submissive. I contend that we’re born this way …What say you?
~randy, Resident goodboy
i’m inclined to agree @Randy, but i would say yes and no. kind of like an athlete ~ the potential/talent is there (born this way), but it takes intent, practice, and good coaching to really bring it out (why we’re all here). indoctrinated is kind of a strong word. ultimately, it’s a choice. personally, i’ve always felt it but some days i didn’t choose it… thanks for the thoughtful question~!!
kittyboy717, Your response is interesting. For me I’ve known I was so inclined since I was about 12 years old. In the beginning it manifested itself in sexual ways and still does occasionally (I’m not exactly sure why). I repressed my feelings for years and went about my business and family life sort of “in the closet”. However, I’ve always regarded the Women I’ve become close with over all of these years as beautifully warm and intelligent beings who held some sort of key to my happiness and an innate ability to help me feel whole. As I’ve noted before, ” they are my way home”. I cannot live without their love, which brings me to my next realization. With a better understanding of submission, and becoming more comfortable with my emotions @Mistress Alisahas helped me to nicely meld this part of my persona into everyday life. I’m a much happier man now. The relationship I have with my significant other is far more meaningful than it’s ever been and my relationships with everyone in my social circle are richer. So, I’d say yes, we’re born with this propensity. I don’t necessarily think it’s a choice. I believe the choice, as you noted, lies in what you decide to do with this emotional programming.
In my case, I find a lot of balance embracing my submissive side. I have also known about this side as a early as puberty. There is a strong sexual preference for sure, and initially, I was comfortable in that being my only expression of my submissive side. As time went on, I found it was an important side of my personality to balance out the dominant qualities in other areas of my life. It also became more important as I married a Woman with a Dominant personality. For a while, O/our personalities clashed at times. It produced a lot of friction. Knowing that I had a submissive side to embrace help to bring balance to O/our relationship. This required me to embrace my submissive side in more than just sexual ways. I wouldn’t say that I wasn’t necessarily born with it, but I had developed it early on. My preferences grew and I became more inclined to be in a relationship where I displayed deeper levels of trust and vulnerability with my partner. Yes, there is still a sexual component in my case and I hope it continues to keep our dynamic intense, but it goes well beyond just that. My submission is now helping to rebalance O/our relationship and I am trying to focus on building up my Mistress every way I can. It’s a really beautiful thing to see the change in both of U/us. It’s symbiotic now, instead of being selfish at earlier stages.
@Randy wow, it must’ve been difficult holding that in for so long. i think it manifests sexually because as we grow from boys into adulthood, puberty is such a confusing period. having this propensity on top of the rush of hormones makes it all the more awkward. i’m glad you’re able to explore this, and share your thoughts with us~!! @docile i’m curious ~ why do you think you weren’t born with it? are you separating the kink from the “true” submission?? if so, why do you think they were separate for you? i only ask because i think of them as being as one by default. thanks for sharing your experiences, guys~!! the similarities and subtle differences are interesting.
I think back to being a pre-teen and I was pretty defiant. Arguably, there is a level of defiance that has followed me to this day. My personality in the vanilla world is much different than it is here. I challenge the status quo in my career, I challenge the people around me to think differently and to see the world differently. I get frustrated when people are overly set in their ways. Submission is something that I do return to for relief. It’s a safe space that I can open up here and with my Mistress. I can show the vulnerability that I don’t show in the vanilla world. When I hear Domme’s talking about their dominant traits early in life, I do relate to some of it. However, I also see what the energy of a dominant Woman brings to my own life. I do protect my submissive side and only show it in the right setting. I would agree that I am trying to separate my kink and “true submission” sides when looking back to my younger days. I definitely had some kink related interests at a very young age that I didn’t understand at the time.
docile, Of course, our personalities in the vanilla world are different than they are here. Obviously, because at this point in time, in the community and in business, they have to be. But your point with respect to balance is exactly correct. I’ve learned in the last three years or so, that having and accepting an honest, loving, caring Dominant Woman in my life has really balanced me emotionally ………… I’m no longer confused. Thank you @kittyboy717 for your mention. I did traverse many years wondering why I was so imbued with these sorts of emotions. Coping with all of this, I think, is a conversation for another day and another thread. I’ll close by saying, for me, submission has everything to do with one’s ego. Simply put, it just gets in the way. As my ego has diminished, my ability to relate to my Dom, my significant other and everyone else has vastly improved.
kittyboy717, docile, Mistress Alisa, it’s interesting that you note your personalities clashed with your Dominant significant other and that you were and are to this day, in some ways defiant. This kind of existence can’t go on forever without resolution or reconciliation, but, in my opinion, questioning authority and experiencing personality clashes are healthy attributes. They mean, at least in my case, that you’re invested, you’re interested, and anxious for an outcome that will work for you, your Mistress and other important people in your life. These traits are definitely difficult when it comes to our Mistresses and the dynamics we’ve involved ourselves with. It can be quite a dance …. Can’t it???
I would say that any defiance I had with my Mistress was slowly melted away after the last few years. W/we both have clearly defined roles within our relationship.
No problem. Thank you for sharing!
oooohh~!! what a great chat, guys~!! @docile that’s interesting in that your submissiveness is something of a relief, but i can relate to the vulnerability/openness aspect. for me, i have a very patient, easygoing personality. assertiveness is something that i’ve had to work on; it comes much easier in a work environment. i’m also a bit introverted and closed off, so i don’t share much about myself. submission allows me to be more open. your experience is so interesting to me… @Randy you make some great points about the ego. and feeling hurt or unseen (ego) makes submission difficult at times ~ it does get in the way when honest communication is needed. in those times we need our submission most… i’m so glad things are working out for you now. what a great thread you started~!!
kittyboy717, I really work to be extraverted in the business world. I try to project being outgoing, friendly and team focused but also having my eye on the target and pushing hard for the goals. All while getting others to jump onboard with me and come along for the ride. Here I also try to play that part but also with a submissive twist. It’s really relaxing for me as we’re all heading in the same direction and I can let go and follow @Mistress Alisa here. I am much more at peace expressing my submissive side when there is a clear lead present. At work, I often feel that the people in leadership roles were not necessarily good leaders, just not good at anything else.
docile, omg~!! i feel eerily almost exactly as you just described. woooooow. that’s so crazy lol for me, business is more about cooperation than competition. at least in all the types of work i’ve done it’s all about getting people to work together. i can be extroverted, but it takes a lot out of me in group settings; i’m much more effective one on one or small groups.
I may have gotten a touch negative in a few respects. Though that can happen if I’m speaking freely. It think we all share a lot in common.
Randy, Mistress Alisa, kittyboy717, docile – What a GREAT question…thank you! IMHO, I was born this way…for as long as I can remember, I’ve been a good boy, with a servant’s heart–and then, due to family dynamics, witnessed first hand the caring, loving, power and authority of a Woman in action. As a result, I’ve admired and been inspired by many Woman, both personally and professionally, and work in a field where males represent just 6%. As I grew up, i truly became a ‘gentle-man’, which in retrospect was probably frustrating for some Women from my past. My first marriage ended in betrayal. But interestingly, I learned a lot about myself through that adversity. When I met my present Wife, things were different. She’s very strong, independent, organized and a great Matriarch for our family–although W/we didn’t have a term for what W/we were doing. We have 3 girls and they’ve had the benefit of watching the movie of U/us and our marriage and family. It wasn’t perfect–(nothing is), however, 3-4 years ago I stumbled upon information that began to describe what we have. Of course, I went about trying to share this information ALL the wrong way. Since @Mistress Alisa , things have changed dramatically–all based upon Her suggestion to ‘Just submit to Her’. Along with THAT nugget came the “get your shit together” conversation which I needed to hear, desperately. Then things began to flow into one another–doing more work on my self, becoming more self aware and finally admitting/realizing that THIS IS who I am…I can totally relate to the comment that was made about “I felt like I was coming out”. But as the process and processing has continued I find myself growing and deepening the experience with my Wife and family, as well as friends, colleagues, etc. I think THIS result supports the evidence that THIS is who I am…And it’s funny, but upon reflection, I can definitely see seasons in O/our relationship and marriage where we were closer to a FLR with D/s roles, but my ego probably got in the way. So, recent posts about the ego have resonated DEEPLY with me on that one. Question: Knowing what you know NOW, about your submissive nature what would you say to your younger self and/or what would you do differently???
Mark K, wow~!! what a delightful comment ~ thank you for sharing~!! it sounds like you had a good upbringing, but i’m sorry about your first marriage… that sounds so painful… however, it’s wonderful that you were able to turn it around and do much better~!! one thing that stuck out to me is when you mentioned that being a gentleman was frustrating for some women of your past… why do you think that is..? and to answer your question at the end ~ i would tell my younger self to not be ashamed about your feelings and to be more honest about them.
kittyboy717, Thank you for your comments and observations! I think I was frustrating to some women in my past because they wanted a ‘bad boy’ and I was a ‘nice guy’ and a gentle man. If I’m being honest and transparent–it was because i still didn’t TRULY know who I was, and it wasn’t until later in life and after a great deal of life experience and FINALLY discovering the vernacular to describe who I am…But as you know, there are MANY stages and levels and depth to this journey…which is why ultimately, I’m SO grateful to have found Mistress Alisa and this community…
Mark K, docile, kittyboy717, Mistress Alisa, Mark, our situations are strikingly similar and “yes” I believe that we’re born this way. I like your remark, ” I’ve been a good boy, with a servant’s heart–and then, due to family dynamics, witnessed first hand the caring, loving, power and authority of a Woman in action”. Being married for over 40 years, I definitely can relate to the caring, loving, power and authority of Women in action. With all the processing I’ve done over the last three years, because of aging and with Mistress Alisa’s unwavering guidance, I understand this now more than ever. When I was younger and didn’t fully understand relationships. Although I knew in my heart that I was submissive, I didn’t see or comprehend the beauty it could bring to my life and so it very often reared its head in a more sexual way. I was confused. I was wanting to be submissive, and I was in many ways, but, I was also arrogant, cocky and selfish too. As @kittyboy717noted, I was a “badboy” in a lot of ways. I think my Wife’s Dominance, and my own for that matter, manifested itself through the division of labor that evolved in our relationship. That is to say, I took care of business, finances and other :manly” stuff whereas she saw more to the kids, making all of us a beautiful home and caring for our emotional wellbeing. As you said above, Mistress Alisa has changed my life dramatically as well. She’s been so patient with me. She understood that inside of my hardened shell there was a modest man. Thankfully, she persevered as she does. She’s taught me and continues to teach me what it means to be submissive. A while back Mistress Alisa noted that I need to love my Wife in the same way I wanted to be loved. Simple as this is, it sort of codified my thinking. It was like a “lightbulb” moment for me and solidified a belief in my mind that I think about every day. OK, this has gone on far too long. So, suffice it say, submission doesn’t mean weakness and it’s nothing to be ashamed of. Conversely, it gives us strength as it does our spouses, it provides us with greater emotional understanding and teaches us more about Love. As Keith Richards said a few years ago, That’s all there is.
